Apache Ignite 3.0

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Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
Igniters,

I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0. Ignite 2.0
exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a significant
list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot implement
without breaking compatibility.

I think it's time to start planning for the next major release and
discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some information
and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In the next
few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share it once
this is done. Stay tuned!

I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.

In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas, please feel
free to join the thread and share them.

[1]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist

Regards,
Val
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Ilya Kasnacheev
Hello!

I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release. Let us
correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas now, as
well as remove old and deprecated code.

We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing API
(such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could prototype before
starting the 3.0 task.

I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can be
added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove or
remodel stuff in point releases.

Regards,
--
Ilya Kasnacheev


чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
[hidden email]>:

> Igniters,
>
> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0. Ignite 2.0
> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a significant
> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot implement
> without breaking compatibility.
>
> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release and
> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some information
> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In the next
> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share it once
> this is done. Stay tuned!
>
> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
>
> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas, please feel
> free to join the thread and share them.
>
> [1]
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>
> Regards,
> Val
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Saikat Maitra
Hi Valentin

Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it will be
a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
planning.

It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also to
understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.

Regards,
Saikat

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release. Let us
> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas now, as
> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>
> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing API
> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could prototype before
> starting the 3.0 task.
>
> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can be
> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove or
> remodel stuff in point releases.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Ilya Kasnacheev
>
>
> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email]>:
>
> > Igniters,
> >
> > I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0. Ignite 2.0
> > exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> significant
> > list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot implement
> > without breaking compatibility.
> >
> > I think it's time to start planning for the next major release and
> > discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> information
> > and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In the next
> > few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share it once
> > this is done. Stay tuned!
> >
> > I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> >
> > In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas, please
> feel
> > free to join the thread and share them.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> >
> > Regards,
> > Val
> >
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

dmagda
Saikat,

Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and outlines
the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule the
meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new Virtual
Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
application developers.

Denis

On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Valentin
>
> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it will be
> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> planning.
>
> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also to
> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>
> Regards,
> Saikat
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release. Let us
> > correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas now, as
> > well as remove old and deprecated code.
> >
> > We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing API
> > (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could prototype
> before
> > starting the 3.0 task.
> >
> > I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can be
> > added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove or
> > remodel stuff in point releases.
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Ilya Kasnacheev
> >
> >
> > чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > [hidden email]>:
> >
> > > Igniters,
> > >
> > > I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0. Ignite 2.0
> > > exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> > significant
> > > list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot implement
> > > without breaking compatibility.
> > >
> > > I think it's time to start planning for the next major release and
> > > discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> > information
> > > and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In the
> next
> > > few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share it once
> > > this is done. Stay tuned!
> > >
> > > I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas, please
> > feel
> > > free to join the thread and share them.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Val
> > >
> >
>


--
-
Denis
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
Hi Saikat,

That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on setting
this up in the nearest future.

-Val

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Saikat,
>
> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and outlines
> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule the
> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new Virtual
> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> application developers.
>
> Denis
>
> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Valentin
> >
> > Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it will
> be
> > a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> > planning.
> >
> > It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also to
> > understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
> > removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
> > connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Saikat
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release. Let us
> > > correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas now,
> as
> > > well as remove old and deprecated code.
> > >
> > > We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing API
> > > (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could prototype
> > before
> > > starting the 3.0 task.
> > >
> > > I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can be
> > > added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove or
> > > remodel stuff in point releases.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > --
> > > Ilya Kasnacheev
> > >
> > >
> > > чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > [hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > Igniters,
> > > >
> > > > I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0. Ignite
> 2.0
> > > > exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> > > significant
> > > > list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot implement
> > > > without breaking compatibility.
> > > >
> > > > I think it's time to start planning for the next major release and
> > > > discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> > > information
> > > > and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In the
> > next
> > > > few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share it
> once
> > > > this is done. Stay tuned!
> > > >
> > > > I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> > > >
> > > > In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas, please
> > > feel
> > > > free to join the thread and share them.
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> > Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Val
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> -
> Denis
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Saikat Maitra
Hi Denis, Val

Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool to
be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about Ignite in
the process :)

Regards
Saikat



On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Saikat,
>
> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on setting
> this up in the nearest future.
>
> -Val
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Saikat,
> >
> > Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> outlines
> > the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule the
> > meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new Virtual
> > Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> > application developers.
> >
> > Denis
> >
> > On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Valentin
> > >
> > > Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it will
> > be
> > > a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> > > planning.
> > >
> > > It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also to
> > > understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
> > > removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
> > > connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Saikat
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello!
> > > >
> > > > I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release. Let
> us
> > > > correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
> now,
> > as
> > > > well as remove old and deprecated code.
> > > >
> > > > We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
> API
> > > > (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could prototype
> > > before
> > > > starting the 3.0 task.
> > > >
> > > > I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
> be
> > > > added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove or
> > > > remodel stuff in point releases.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > --
> > > > Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > > [hidden email]>:
> > > >
> > > > > Igniters,
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0. Ignite
> > 2.0
> > > > > exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> > > > significant
> > > > > list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> implement
> > > > > without breaking compatibility.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think it's time to start planning for the next major release and
> > > > > discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> > > > information
> > > > > and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
> the
> > > next
> > > > > few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share it
> > once
> > > > > this is done. Stay tuned!
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> please
> > > > feel
> > > > > free to join the thread and share them.
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> > > Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Val
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -
> > Denis
> >
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
Igniters,

I've created the page:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0

That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a lot
to talk about :)

Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.

-Val

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Denis, Val
>
> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool to
> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about Ignite in
> the process :)
>
> Regards
> Saikat
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Saikat,
> >
> > That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on setting
> > this up in the nearest future.
> >
> > -Val
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Saikat,
> > >
> > > Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> > outlines
> > > the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
> the
> > > meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
> Virtual
> > > Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> > > application developers.
> > >
> > > Denis
> > >
> > > On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Valentin
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
> will
> > > be
> > > > a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> > > > planning.
> > > >
> > > > It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
> to
> > > > understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
> > > > removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
> > > > connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Saikat
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello!
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
> Let
> > us
> > > > > correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
> > now,
> > > as
> > > > > well as remove old and deprecated code.
> > > > >
> > > > > We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
> > API
> > > > > (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> prototype
> > > > before
> > > > > starting the 3.0 task.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
> > be
> > > > > added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
> or
> > > > > remodel stuff in point releases.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > > > [hidden email]>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Igniters,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> Ignite
> > > 2.0
> > > > > > exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> > > > > significant
> > > > > > list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> > implement
> > > > > > without breaking compatibility.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
> and
> > > > > > discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> > > > > information
> > > > > > and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
> > the
> > > > next
> > > > > > few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
> it
> > > once
> > > > > > this is done. Stay tuned!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> > please
> > > > > feel
> > > > > > free to join the thread and share them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> > > > Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Val
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > -
> > > Denis
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

vveider
Hi, Val!
Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!


I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
 — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks, examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
 — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as separate ones (PHP for example)
 — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced for this part.

Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as unused anymore).


> On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Igniters,
>
> I've created the page:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0
>
> That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a lot
> to talk about :)
>
> Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
> questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
> start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>
> -Val
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Denis, Val
>>
>> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool to
>> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about Ignite in
>> the process :)
>>
>> Regards
>> Saikat
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Saikat,
>>>
>>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on setting
>>> this up in the nearest future.
>>>
>>> -Val
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Saikat,
>>>>
>>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
>>> outlines
>>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
>> the
>>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
>> Virtual
>>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
>>>> application developers.
>>>>
>>>> Denis
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Valentin
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
>> will
>>>> be
>>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
>>>>> planning.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
>> to
>>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
>>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
>>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Saikat
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
>>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
>> Let
>>> us
>>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
>>> now,
>>>> as
>>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
>>> API
>>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
>> prototype
>>>>> before
>>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
>>> be
>>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
>> or
>>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
>>>>>> [hidden email]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Igniters,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
>> Ignite
>>>> 2.0
>>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
>>>>>> significant
>>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
>>> implement
>>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
>> and
>>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
>>>>>> information
>>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
>>> the
>>>>> next
>>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
>> it
>>>> once
>>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
>>> please
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
>>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Val
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -
>>>> Denis
>>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Saikat Maitra
Hi Val,

Thank you for sharing the page and your efforts in compiling the features
list, I am thinking since it is a major version release then shall we
include a section for deprecated features and add changes as mentioned in
our Apache Ignite 3.0 Wishlist

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist

Regards,
Saikat


On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:25 AM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, Val!
> Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>
>
> I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
> Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
> examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom
> dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as
> separate ones (PHP for example)
>  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
> Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced
> for this part.
>
> Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
> huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the
> verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers
> (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as
> unused anymore).
>
>
> > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Igniters,
> >
> > I've created the page:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0
> >
> > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a
> lot
> > to talk about :)
> >
> > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
> > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
> > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
> >
> > -Val
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Denis, Val
> >>
> >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool
> to
> >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
> Ignite in
> >> the process :)
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Saikat
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> >> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Saikat,
> >>>
> >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
> setting
> >>> this up in the nearest future.
> >>>
> >>> -Val
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Saikat,
> >>>>
> >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> >>> outlines
> >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
> >> the
> >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
> >> Virtual
> >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> >>>> application developers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Denis
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Valentin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
> >> will
> >>>> be
> >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> >>>>> planning.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
> >> to
> >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
> >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
> >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Saikat
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> >>>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
> >> Let
> >>> us
> >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
> >>> now,
> >>>> as
> >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
> >>> API
> >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> >> prototype
> >>>>> before
> >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
> >>> be
> >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
> >> or
> >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> >>>>>> [hidden email]>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Igniters,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> >> Ignite
> >>>> 2.0
> >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> >>>>>> significant
> >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> >>> implement
> >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
> >> and
> >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> >>>>>> information
> >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
> >>> the
> >>>>> next
> >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
> >> it
> >>>> once
> >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> >>> please
> >>>>>> feel
> >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>> Val
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> -
> >>>> Denis
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
In reply to this post by vveider
Hi Petr,

I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if
very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made within
IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a new
version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.

However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it should
work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to avoid
reinventing the wheel.

-Val

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, Val!
> Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>
>
> I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
> Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
> examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom
> dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as
> separate ones (PHP for example)
>  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
> Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced
> for this part.
>
> Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
> huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the
> verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers
> (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as
> unused anymore).
>
>
> > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Igniters,
> >
> > I've created the page:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0
> >
> > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a
> lot
> > to talk about :)
> >
> > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
> > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
> > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
> >
> > -Val
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Denis, Val
> >>
> >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool
> to
> >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
> Ignite in
> >> the process :)
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Saikat
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> >> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Saikat,
> >>>
> >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
> setting
> >>> this up in the nearest future.
> >>>
> >>> -Val
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Saikat,
> >>>>
> >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> >>> outlines
> >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
> >> the
> >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
> >> Virtual
> >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> >>>> application developers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Denis
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Valentin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
> >> will
> >>>> be
> >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> >>>>> planning.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
> >> to
> >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
> >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
> >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Saikat
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> >>>> [hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
> >> Let
> >>> us
> >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
> >>> now,
> >>>> as
> >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
> >>> API
> >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> >> prototype
> >>>>> before
> >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
> >>> be
> >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
> >> or
> >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> >>>>>> [hidden email]>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Igniters,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> >> Ignite
> >>>> 2.0
> >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> >>>>>> significant
> >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> >>> implement
> >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
> >> and
> >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> >>>>>> information
> >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
> >>> the
> >>>>> next
> >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
> >> it
> >>>> once
> >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> >>> please
> >>>>>> feel
> >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>> Val
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> -
> >>>> Denis
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
In reply to this post by Saikat Maitra
Hi Saikat,

Absolutely, we should revisit the existing APIs and decide which we want to
keep as-is, which we want to remove, and which we want to rework and
modernize. 3.0 is a rare opportunity to do such a cleanup :)

-Val

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 6:54 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Val,
>
> Thank you for sharing the page and your efforts in compiling the features
> list, I am thinking since it is a major version release then shall we
> include a section for deprecated features and add changes as mentioned in
> our Apache Ignite 3.0 Wishlist
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>
> Regards,
> Saikat
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:25 AM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi, Val!
> > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
> >
> >
> > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
> >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
> > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
> > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom
> > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
> >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as
> > separate ones (PHP for example)
> >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
> > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced
> > for this part.
> >
> > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
> > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on
> the
> > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
> leftovers
> > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as
> > unused anymore).
> >
> >
> > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Igniters,
> > >
> > > I've created the page:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0
> > >
> > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a
> > lot
> > > to talk about :)
> > >
> > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
> > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
> > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
> > >
> > > -Val
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Denis, Val
> > >>
> > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very
> cool
> > to
> > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
> > Ignite in
> > >> the process :)
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >> Saikat
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> > >> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Saikat,
> > >>>
> > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
> > setting
> > >>> this up in the nearest future.
> > >>>
> > >>> -Val
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Saikat,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> > >>> outlines
> > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and
> schedule
> > >> the
> > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
> > >> Virtual
> > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> > >>>> application developers.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Denis
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]
> >
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi Valentin
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
> > >> will
> > >>>> be
> > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> > >>>>> planning.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
> > >> to
> > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled
> for
> > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member
> to
> > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>> Saikat
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > >>>> [hidden email]>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hello!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
> > >> Let
> > >>> us
> > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
> > >>> now,
> > >>>> as
> > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
> > >>> API
> > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> > >> prototype
> > >>>>> before
> > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They
> can
> > >>> be
> > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
> > >> or
> > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > >>>>>> [hidden email]>:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Igniters,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> > >> Ignite
> > >>>> 2.0
> > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> > >>>>>> significant
> > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> > >>> implement
> > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
> > >> and
> > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> > >>>>>> information
> > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
> > >>> the
> > >>>>> next
> > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
> > >> it
> > >>>> once
> > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> > >>> please
> > >>>>>> feel
> > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [1]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>> Val
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> -
> > >>>> Denis
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

dmagda
Val,

I remember some of us wanted to rework the transactional API. Is it still
relevant?

Also, I would add the native image feature of GraalVM to the scope of the
release. Presently, even Java *thin* clients fail if an app is compiled and
started as the native image. Turns out that the thin client triggers some
logic of the BinaryMarshaller that attempts to load classes dynamically
which crashes the native application. So, I don't have any other choice but
to use our legacy REST APIs to query records from Ignite. Not the best
choice, right :)

GraalVM's native image generation capability is a cornerstone feature for
modern Java applications deployed in serverless environments and powered by
contemporary frameworks such as Micronaut and Quarkus. That's the nearest
future and I would encourage us to support the native image feature at
least for the thin clients in Ignite 3.0. It might be much more difficult
to enable the support for the thick clients but that waits.


-
Denis


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 3:34 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Saikat,
>
> Absolutely, we should revisit the existing APIs and decide which we want to
> keep as-is, which we want to remove, and which we want to rework and
> modernize. 3.0 is a rare opportunity to do such a cleanup :)
>
> -Val
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 6:54 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Val,
> >
> > Thank you for sharing the page and your efforts in compiling the features
> > list, I am thinking since it is a major version release then shall we
> > include a section for deprecated features and add changes as mentioned in
> > our Apache Ignite 3.0 Wishlist
> >
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> >
> > Regards,
> > Saikat
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:25 AM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, Val!
> > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
> > >
> > >
> > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
> > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
> > > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
> > > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via
> custom
> > > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
> > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed
> as
> > > separate ones (PHP for example)
> > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
> > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
> introduced
> > > for this part.
> > >
> > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
> > > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on
> > the
> > > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
> > leftovers
> > > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked
> as
> > > unused anymore).
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Igniters,
> > > >
> > > > I've created the page:
> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0
> > > >
> > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already
> a
> > > lot
> > > > to talk about :)
> > > >
> > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections,
> or
> > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I
> will
> > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
> > > >
> > > > -Val
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
> [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Denis, Val
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very
> > cool
> > > to
> > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
> > > Ignite in
> > > >> the process :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards
> > > >> Saikat
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > >> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hi Saikat,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
> > > setting
> > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -Val
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Saikat,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> > > >>> outlines
> > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and
> > schedule
> > > >> the
> > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
> > > >> Virtual
> > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> > > >>>> application developers.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Denis
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if
> it
> > > >> will
> > > >>>> be
> > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the
> release
> > > >>>>> planning.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and
> also
> > > >> to
> > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled
> > for
> > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member
> > to
> > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Regards,
> > > >>>>> Saikat
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > >>>> [hidden email]>
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Hello!
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
> > > >> Let
> > > >>> us
> > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better
> ideas
> > > >>> now,
> > > >>>> as
> > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and
> user-facing
> > > >>> API
> > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> > > >> prototype
> > > >>>>> before
> > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They
> > can
> > > >>> be
> > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really
> remove
> > > >> or
> > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Regards,
> > > >>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > >>>>>> [hidden email]>:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> > > >> Ignite
> > > >>>> 2.0
> > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> > > >>>>>> significant
> > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> > > >>> implement
> > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
> > > >> and
> > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> > > >>>>>> information
> > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this.
> In
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>>> next
> > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
> > > >> it
> > > >>>> once
> > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> > > >>> please
> > > >>>>>> feel
> > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> [1]
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > > >>>>>>> Val
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>> -
> > > >>>> Denis
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
Denis,

Agree. Added this requirement to the page along with everything else
discussed so far.

-Val

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 4:07 PM Denis Magda <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Val,
>
> I remember some of us wanted to rework the transactional API. Is it still
> relevant?
>
> Also, I would add the native image feature of GraalVM to the scope of the
> release. Presently, even Java *thin* clients fail if an app is compiled and
> started as the native image. Turns out that the thin client triggers some
> logic of the BinaryMarshaller that attempts to load classes dynamically
> which crashes the native application. So, I don't have any other choice but
> to use our legacy REST APIs to query records from Ignite. Not the best
> choice, right :)
>
> GraalVM's native image generation capability is a cornerstone feature for
> modern Java applications deployed in serverless environments and powered by
> contemporary frameworks such as Micronaut and Quarkus. That's the nearest
> future and I would encourage us to support the native image feature at
> least for the thin clients in Ignite 3.0. It might be much more difficult
> to enable the support for the thick clients but that waits.
>
>
> -
> Denis
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 3:34 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Saikat,
> >
> > Absolutely, we should revisit the existing APIs and decide which we want
> to
> > keep as-is, which we want to remove, and which we want to rework and
> > modernize. 3.0 is a rare opportunity to do such a cleanup :)
> >
> > -Val
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 6:54 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Val,
> > >
> > > Thank you for sharing the page and your efforts in compiling the
> features
> > > list, I am thinking since it is a major version release then shall we
> > > include a section for deprecated features and add changes as mentioned
> in
> > > our Apache Ignite 3.0 Wishlist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Saikat
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:25 AM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi, Val!
> > > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
> > > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
> > > > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
> > > > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via
> > custom
> > > > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
> > > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed
> > as
> > > > separate ones (PHP for example)
> > > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
> > > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
> > introduced
> > > > for this part.
> > > >
> > > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be
> a
> > > > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be
> on
> > > the
> > > > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
> > > leftovers
> > > > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or
> marked
> > as
> > > > unused anymore).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Igniters,
> > > > >
> > > > > I've created the page:
> > > > >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0
> > > > >
> > > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is
> already
> > a
> > > > lot
> > > > > to talk about :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns,
> objections,
> > or
> > > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I
> > will
> > > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Val
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Denis, Val
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very
> > > cool
> > > > to
> > > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
> > > > Ignite in
> > > > >> the process :)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards
> > > > >> Saikat
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > > >> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Hi Saikat,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
> > > > setting
> > > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -Val
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Saikat,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects
> and
> > > > >>> outlines
> > > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and
> > > schedule
> > > > >> the
> > > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our
> new
> > > > >> Virtual
> > > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors
> and
> > > > >>>> application developers.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Denis
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if
> > it
> > > > >> will
> > > > >>>> be
> > > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the
> > release
> > > > >>>>> planning.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and
> > also
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and
> scheduled
> > > for
> > > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community
> member
> > > to
> > > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Regards,
> > > > >>>>> Saikat
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > > >>>> [hidden email]>
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hello!
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming
> release.
> > > > >> Let
> > > > >>> us
> > > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better
> > ideas
> > > > >>> now,
> > > > >>>> as
> > > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and
> > user-facing
> > > > >>> API
> > > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> > > > >> prototype
> > > > >>>>> before
> > > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0.
> They
> > > can
> > > > >>> be
> > > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really
> > remove
> > > > >> or
> > > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Regards,
> > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > > > >>>>>> [hidden email]>:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> > > > >> Ignite
> > > > >>>> 2.0
> > > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected
> a
> > > > >>>>>> significant
> > > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> > > > >>> implement
> > > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major
> release
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered
> some
> > > > >>>>>> information
> > > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this.
> > In
> > > > >>> the
> > > > >>>>> next
> > > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will
> share
> > > > >> it
> > > > >>>> once
> > > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as
> well.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or
> ideas,
> > > > >>> please
> > > > >>>>>> feel
> > > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> [1]
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
> > > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > > > >>>>>>> Val
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >>>> -
> > > > >>>> Denis
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

vveider
In reply to this post by Valentin Kulichenko
Hi, Val.

> On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Petr,
>
> I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made within IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a new version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
>
> However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it should work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to avoid reinventing the wheel.

I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.

We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to download necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify required optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything missing from known storage.

The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on demand, not have all libs locally from the start.


>
> -Val
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> Hi, Val!
> Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>
>
> I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks, examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as separate ones (PHP for example)
>  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
> Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced for this part.
>
> Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as unused anymore).
>
>
> > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >
> > Igniters,
> >
> > I've created the page:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0 <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0>
> >
> > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a lot
> > to talk about :)
> >
> > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
> > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
> > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
> >
> > -Val
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Denis, Val
> >>
> >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool to
> >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about Ignite in
> >> the process :)
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Saikat
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Saikat,
> >>>
> >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on setting
> >>> this up in the nearest future.
> >>>
> >>> -Val
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Saikat,
> >>>>
> >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> >>> outlines
> >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
> >> the
> >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
> >> Virtual
> >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> >>>> application developers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Denis
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Valentin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
> >> will
> >>>> be
> >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> >>>>> planning.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
> >> to
> >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
> >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
> >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Saikat
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> >>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
> >> Let
> >>> us
> >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
> >>> now,
> >>>> as
> >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
> >>> API
> >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> >> prototype
> >>>>> before
> >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
> >>> be
> >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
> >> or
> >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> >>>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Igniters,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> >> Ignite
> >>>> 2.0
> >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> >>>>>> significant
> >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> >>> implement
> >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
> >> and
> >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> >>>>>> information
> >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
> >>> the
> >>>>> next
> >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
> >> it
> >>>> once
> >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> >>> please
> >>>>>> feel
> >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/ <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/>
> >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>> Val
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> -
> >>>> Denis
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>

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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
Hi Petr,

Got it, that makes sense. I think we should rely on Maven for this.
Basically, like the mvnw wrapper, but specific for Ignite purposes
(enable/disable a module, start/stop a node, etc.). BTW, do you think
RPM/DEB packages can use the same approach? Or they require that binaries
are stored in specific repositories?

-Val

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 11:48 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, Val.
>
> On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Petr,
>
> I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if
> very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made within
> IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a new
> version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
>
> However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
> dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it should
> work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to avoid
> reinventing the wheel.
>
>
> I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
>
> We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries
> (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to download
> necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify required
> optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything
> missing from known storage.
>
> The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on demand,
> not have all libs locally from the start.
>
>
>
> -Val
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Val!
>> Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>>
>>
>> I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>>  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
>> Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
>> examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom
>> dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>>  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as
>> separate ones (PHP for example)
>>  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
>> Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced
>> for this part.
>>
>> Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
>> huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the
>> verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers
>> (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as
>> unused anymore).
>>
>>
>> > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Igniters,
>> >
>> > I've created the page:
>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0
>> >
>> > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a
>> lot
>> > to talk about :)
>> >
>> > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
>> > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
>> > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>> >
>> > -Val
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Denis, Val
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very
>> cool to
>> >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
>> Ignite in
>> >> the process :)
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Saikat
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>> >> [hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi Saikat,
>> >>>
>> >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
>> setting
>> >>> this up in the nearest future.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Val
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Saikat,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
>> >>> outlines
>> >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
>> >> the
>> >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
>> >> Virtual
>> >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
>> >>>> application developers.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Denis
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Valentin
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
>> >> will
>> >>>> be
>> >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
>> >>>>> planning.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
>> >> to
>> >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled
>> for
>> >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
>> >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>> Saikat
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
>> >>>> [hidden email]>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
>> >> Let
>> >>> us
>> >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
>> >>> now,
>> >>>> as
>> >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
>> >>> API
>> >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
>> >> prototype
>> >>>>> before
>> >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
>> >>> be
>> >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
>> >> or
>> >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
>> >>>>>> [hidden email]>:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Igniters,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
>> >> Ignite
>> >>>> 2.0
>> >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
>> >>>>>> significant
>> >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
>> >>> implement
>> >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
>> >> and
>> >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
>> >>>>>> information
>> >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
>> >>> the
>> >>>>> next
>> >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
>> >> it
>> >>>> once
>> >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
>> >>> please
>> >>>>>> feel
>> >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> [1]
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/
>> >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>> Val
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> -
>> >>>> Denis
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

vveider
RPM/DEB will be easy to refactor that way —internal dependency management will help with that.

We can start with simple task — divide package into at least the following modules:
 — apache-ignite: slim package with only necessary runtime libs and scripts (just like slim binary)
 — apache-ignite-optional: package with optional libs
 — apache-ignite-benchmarks
 — apache-ignite-examples
 — apache-ignite-platforms

Later, we can further modularise apache-ignite-optional into per-lib package and add support for extensions that are now in separate repository.

Everything will be stored at Apache Bintray in correct repository layout and benefit from corresponding package management systems to install.


Also, for packages, I'd like to introduce version into naming, i.e. future package should have name like apache-ignite3-3.0.0 — that should allow to have both AI 2.X and AI 3.X the same time which can help users to migrate between major versions faster.

> On 12 Aug 2020, at 21:15, Valentin Kulichenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Petr,
>
> Got it, that makes sense. I think we should rely on Maven for this. Basically, like the mvnw wrapper, but specific for Ignite purposes (enable/disable a module, start/stop a node, etc.). BTW, do you think RPM/DEB packages can use the same approach? Or they require that binaries are stored in specific repositories?
>
> -Val
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 11:48 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> Hi, Val.
>
>> On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Petr,
>>
>> I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made within IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a new version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
>>
>> However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it should work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to avoid reinventing the wheel.
>
> I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
>
> We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to download necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify required optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything missing from known storage.
>
> The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on demand, not have all libs locally from the start.
>
>
>>
>> -Val
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> Hi, Val!
>> Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>>
>>
>> I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>>  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks, examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>>  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as separate ones (PHP for example)
>>  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
>> Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you introduced for this part.
>>
>> Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as unused anymore).
>>
>>
>> > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Igniters,
>> >
>> > I've created the page:
>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0 <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0>
>> >
>> > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a lot
>> > to talk about :)
>> >
>> > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
>> > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
>> > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>> >
>> > -Val
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Denis, Val
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very cool to
>> >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about Ignite in
>> >> the process :)
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Saikat
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>> >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi Saikat,
>> >>>
>> >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on setting
>> >>> this up in the nearest future.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Val
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Saikat,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
>> >>> outlines
>> >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and schedule
>> >> the
>> >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
>> >> Virtual
>> >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
>> >>>> application developers.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Denis
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Valentin
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
>> >> will
>> >>>> be
>> >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
>> >>>>> planning.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
>> >> to
>> >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled for
>> >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member to
>> >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>> Saikat
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
>> >>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
>> >> Let
>> >>> us
>> >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
>> >>> now,
>> >>>> as
>> >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
>> >>> API
>> >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
>> >> prototype
>> >>>>> before
>> >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They can
>> >>> be
>> >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
>> >> or
>> >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
>> >>>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Igniters,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
>> >> Ignite
>> >>>> 2.0
>> >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
>> >>>>>> significant
>> >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
>> >>> implement
>> >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
>> >> and
>> >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
>> >>>>>> information
>> >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
>> >>> the
>> >>>>> next
>> >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
>> >> it
>> >>>> once
>> >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
>> >>> please
>> >>>>>> feel
>> >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> [1]
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/ <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/>
>> >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>> Val
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> -
>> >>>> Denis
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>

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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Ilya Kasnacheev
In reply to this post by vveider
Hello!

On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
times when apache was all rage.

Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a custom
bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from production.

This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except for
experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime starts.

Regards,
--
Ilya Kasnacheev


ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]>:

> Hi, Val.
>
> > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Petr,
> >
> > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if
> very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made within
> IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a new
> version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
> >
> > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
> dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it should
> work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to avoid
> reinventing the wheel.
>
> I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
>
> We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries
> (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to download
> necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify required
> optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything
> missing from known storage.
>
> The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on demand,
> not have all libs locally from the start.
>
>
> >
> > -Val
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> > Hi, Val!
> > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
> >
> >
> > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
> >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
> Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
> examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom
> dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
> >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as
> separate ones (PHP for example)
> >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
> > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
> introduced for this part.
> >
> > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
> huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the
> verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers
> (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as
> unused anymore).
> >
> >
> > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Igniters,
> > >
> > > I've created the page:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0 <
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0>
> > >
> > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a
> lot
> > > to talk about :)
> > >
> > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
> > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
> > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
> > >
> > > -Val
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Denis, Val
> > >>
> > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very
> cool to
> > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
> Ignite in
> > >> the process :)
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >> Saikat
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
> > >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Saikat,
> > >>>
> > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
> setting
> > >>> this up in the nearest future.
> > >>>
> > >>> -Val
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Saikat,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
> > >>> outlines
> > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and
> schedule
> > >> the
> > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
> > >> Virtual
> > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
> > >>>> application developers.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Denis
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi Valentin
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
> > >> will
> > >>>> be
> > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
> > >>>>> planning.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
> > >> to
> > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled
> for
> > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member
> to
> > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>> Saikat
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > >>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hello!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
> > >> Let
> > >>> us
> > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
> > >>> now,
> > >>>> as
> > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
> > >>> API
> > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
> > >> prototype
> > >>>>> before
> > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They
> can
> > >>> be
> > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
> > >> or
> > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > >>>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>>:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Igniters,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
> > >> Ignite
> > >>>> 2.0
> > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
> > >>>>>> significant
> > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
> > >>> implement
> > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
> > >> and
> > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
> > >>>>>> information
> > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
> > >>> the
> > >>>>> next
> > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
> > >> it
> > >>>> once
> > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
> > >>> please
> > >>>>>> feel
> > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> [1]
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/ <
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/>
> > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>> Val
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> -
> > >>>> Denis
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
>
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Carbone, Adam
Good Morning from the EastCoast

I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards immutability, and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that immutable binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however there are still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or deployment time ( helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the package installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but install and often in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as code. I think run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly containerized world.

Regards.

Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team | Bottomline Technologies
Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
www.bottomline.com
 
 

On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <[hidden email]> wrote:

    Hello!
   
    On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
    times when apache was all rage.
   
    Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a custom
    bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
    production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from production.
   
    This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
    during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except for
    experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime starts.
   
    Regards,
    --
    Ilya Kasnacheev
   
   
    ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]>:
   
    > Hi, Val.
    >
    > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
    > [hidden email]> wrote:
    > >
    > > Hi Petr,
    > >
    > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current way if
    > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made within
    > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a new
    > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
    > >
    > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
    > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it should
    > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to avoid
    > reinventing the wheel.
    >
    > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
    >
    > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries
    > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to download
    > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify required
    > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything
    > missing from known storage.
    >
    > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on demand,
    > not have all libs locally from the start.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > -Val
    > >
    > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]
    > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
    > > Hi, Val!
    > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
    > >
    > >
    > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
    > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for starting
    > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
    > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via custom
    > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
    > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules packed as
    > separate ones (PHP for example)
    > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
    > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
    > introduced for this part.
    > >
    > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would be a
    > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be on the
    > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy leftovers
    > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or marked as
    > unused anymore).
    > >
    > >
    > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
    > [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Igniters,
    > > >
    > > > I've created the page:
    > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$  <
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$ >
    > > >
    > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is already a
    > lot
    > > > to talk about :)
    > > >
    > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns, objections, or
    > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes, I will
    > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
    > > >
    > > > -Val
    > > >
    > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]
    > <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    > > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> Hi Denis, Val
    > > >>
    > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be very
    > cool to
    > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more about
    > Ignite in
    > > >> the process :)
    > > >>
    > > >> Regards
    > > >> Saikat
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
    > > >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    > wrote:
    > > >>
    > > >>> Hi Saikat,
    > > >>>
    > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis on
    > setting
    > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
    > > >>>
    > > >>> -Val
    > > >>>
    > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]
    > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
    > > >>>
    > > >>>> Saikat,
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val collects and
    > > >>> outlines
    > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and
    > schedule
    > > >> the
    > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our new
    > > >> Virtual
    > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite contributors and
    > > >>>> application developers.
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> Denis
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <[hidden email]
    > <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    > > >>>> wrote:
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking if it
    > > >> will
    > > >>>> be
    > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the release
    > > >>>>> planning.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added and also
    > > >> to
    > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and scheduled
    > for
    > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community member
    > to
    > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> Regards,
    > > >>>>> Saikat
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
    > > >>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
    > > >>>>> wrote:
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>>> Hello!
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming release.
    > > >> Let
    > > >>> us
    > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better ideas
    > > >>> now,
    > > >>>> as
    > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and user-facing
    > > >>> API
    > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
    > > >> prototype
    > > >>>>> before
    > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0. They
    > can
    > > >>> be
    > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really remove
    > > >> or
    > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> Regards,
    > > >>>>>> --
    > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
    > > >>>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:
    > [hidden email]>>:
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
    > > >> Ignite
    > > >>>> 2.0
    > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already collected a
    > > >>>>>> significant
    > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
    > > >>> implement
    > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major release
    > > >> and
    > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered some
    > > >>>>>> information
    > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach this. In
    > > >>> the
    > > >>>>> next
    > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will share
    > > >> it
    > > >>>> once
    > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as well.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or ideas,
    > > >>> please
    > > >>>>>> feel
    > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> [1]
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$  <
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$ >
    > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>> Regards,
    > > >>>>>>> Val
    > > >>>>>>>
    > > >>>>>>
    > > >>>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>> --
    > > >>>> -
    > > >>>> Denis
    > > >>>>
    > > >>>
    > > >>
    > >
    >
    >
   

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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
Hi Ilya,

Can you please describe your vision of how it should work?

Let's say, I want to set up a cluster of several standalone server nodes
with a couple of optional modules enabled. What are my steps?

-Val

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:03 AM Carbone, Adam <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Good Morning from the EastCoast
>
> I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards immutability,
> and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that immutable
> binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however there are
> still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or deployment time (
> helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the package
> installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but install and often
> in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as code. I think
> run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
> containerized world.
>
> Regards.
>
> Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team |
> Bottomline Technologies
> Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
> www.bottomline.com
>
>
>
> On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     Hello!
>
>     On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
>     times when apache was all rage.
>
>     Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a custom
>     bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
>     production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from
> production.
>
>     This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
>     during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except
> for
>     experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime starts.
>
>     Regards,
>     --
>     Ilya Kasnacheev
>
>
>     ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]>:
>
>     > Hi, Val.
>     >
>     > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
>     > [hidden email]> wrote:
>     > >
>     > > Hi Petr,
>     > >
>     > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current
> way if
>     > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made
> within
>     > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a
> new
>     > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
>     > >
>     > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
>     > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it
> should
>     > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to
> avoid
>     > reinventing the wheel.
>     >
>     > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
>     >
>     > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate binaries
>     > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to
> download
>     > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify
> required
>     > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download everything
>     > missing from known storage.
>     >
>     > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on
> demand,
>     > not have all libs locally from the start.
>     >
>     >
>     > >
>     > > -Val
>     > >
>     > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]
>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     > > Hi, Val!
>     > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>     > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for
> starting
>     > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
>     > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via
> custom
>     > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>     > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules
> packed as
>     > separate ones (PHP for example)
>     > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
>     > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
>     > introduced for this part.
>     > >
>     > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would
> be a
>     > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to be
> on the
>     > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
> leftovers
>     > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or
> marked as
>     > unused anymore).
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
>     > [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
>     > wrote:
>     > > >
>     > > > Igniters,
>     > > >
>     > > > I've created the page:
>     > > >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> <
>     >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
> >
>     > > >
>     > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is
> already a
>     > lot
>     > > > to talk about :)
>     > > >
>     > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns,
> objections, or
>     > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes,
> I will
>     > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>     > > >
>     > > > -Val
>     > > >
>     > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
> [hidden email]
>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     > > > wrote:
>     > > >
>     > > >> Hi Denis, Val
>     > > >>
>     > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be
> very
>     > cool to
>     > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more
> about
>     > Ignite in
>     > > >> the process :)
>     > > >>
>     > > >> Regards
>     > > >> Saikat
>     > > >>
>     > > >>
>     > > >>
>     > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>     > > >> [hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>>
>     > wrote:
>     > > >>
>     > > >>> Hi Saikat,
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis
> on
>     > setting
>     > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>> -Val
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <[hidden email]
>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>>> Saikat,
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val
> collects and
>     > > >>> outlines
>     > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and
>     > schedule
>     > > >> the
>     > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use our
> new
>     > > >> Virtual
>     > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite
> contributors and
>     > > >>>> application developers.
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> Denis
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <
> [hidden email]
>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     > > >>>> wrote:
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am thinking
> if it
>     > > >> will
>     > > >>>> be
>     > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the
> release
>     > > >>>>> planning.
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added
> and also
>     > > >> to
>     > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and
> scheduled
>     > for
>     > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community
> member
>     > to
>     > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> Regards,
>     > > >>>>> Saikat
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
>     > > >>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     > > >>>>> wrote:
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> Hello!
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming
> release.
>     > > >> Let
>     > > >>> us
>     > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have better
> ideas
>     > > >>> now,
>     > > >>>> as
>     > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and
> user-facing
>     > > >>> API
>     > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
>     > > >> prototype
>     > > >>>>> before
>     > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0.
> They
>     > can
>     > > >>> be
>     > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't really
> remove
>     > > >> or
>     > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> Regards,
>     > > >>>>>> --
>     > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
>     > > >>>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:
>     > [hidden email]>>:
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite 3.0.
>     > > >> Ignite
>     > > >>>> 2.0
>     > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already
> collected a
>     > > >>>>>> significant
>     > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
>     > > >>> implement
>     > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major
> release
>     > > >> and
>     > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered
> some
>     > > >>>>>> information
>     > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach
> this. In
>     > > >>> the
>     > > >>>>> next
>     > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will
> share
>     > > >> it
>     > > >>>> once
>     > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as
> well.
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or
> ideas,
>     > > >>> please
>     > > >>>>>> feel
>     > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> [1]
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> <
>     >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
> >
>     > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>> Regards,
>     > > >>>>>>> Val
>     > > >>>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>>
>     > > >>>>>
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>> --
>     > > >>>> -
>     > > >>>> Denis
>     > > >>>>
>     > > >>>
>     > > >>
>     > >
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
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Re: Apache Ignite 3.0

Valentin Kulichenko
Folks,

Since we all want 3.0 to be a "cleanup" release, I've added a section that
lists potential API removals:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+3.0#ApacheIgnite3.0-Removals

Please take a look and let me know if there are any objections, or if there
is anything that should be added.

-Val

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 4:55 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Ilya,
>
> Can you please describe your vision of how it should work?
>
> Let's say, I want to set up a cluster of several standalone server nodes
> with a couple of optional modules enabled. What are my steps?
>
> -Val
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:03 AM Carbone, Adam <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Good Morning from the EastCoast
>>
>> I have to agree that the larger industry is tending towards immutability,
>> and that you build once and test, then you promote/migrate that immutable
>> binary object, be is a library or a docker image etc... however there are
>> still patterns that allow you to determine at install/or deployment time (
>> helm as an example, you choose based on your values what the package
>> installs/provides ) It just isn't decided at runtime but install and often
>> in a gitops type world that is determined by configuration as code. I think
>> run time is difficult to manage especially in our increasingly
>> containerized world.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Adam Carbone | Director of Innovation – Intelligent Platform Team |
>> Bottomline Technologies
>> Office: 603-501-6446 | Mobile: 603-570-8418
>> www.bottomline.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/13/20, 8:01 AM, "Ilya Kasnacheev" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hello!
>>
>>     On the contrary, I would suggest that apache2 way was outdated even at
>>     times when apache was all rage.
>>
>>     Now the nginx approach is prevalent: on devops phase, assemble a
>> custom
>>     bundle with all plugins included, store it somewhere, and ship it to
>>     production as a whole to remove any on-the-fly uncertainty from
>> production.
>>
>>     This is what docker does, but also maven, which downloads dependencies
>>     during build. You do not need to download anything in runtime, except
>> for
>>     experimental deployments. You need to be all set before runtime
>> starts.
>>
>>     Regards,
>>     --
>>     Ilya Kasnacheev
>>
>>
>>     ср, 12 авг. 2020 г. в 09:48, Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>     > Hi, Val.
>>     >
>>     > > On 12 Aug 2020, at 01:31, Valentin Kulichenko <
>>     > [hidden email]> wrote:
>>     > >
>>     > > Hi Petr,
>>     > >
>>     > > I agree -- we should better modularize the platform. The current
>> way if
>>     > very error-prone, especially during upgrades -- any changes made
>> within
>>     > IGNITE_HOME (configs, scripts, modules, etc.) must be merged with a
>> new
>>     > version of the package. There is no standard way of doing this.
>>     > >
>>     > > However, I'm a bit concerned with your suggestion regarding custom
>>     > dependency management. Can you please elaborate on how you think it
>> should
>>     > work? Are there tools we can reuse for this purpose? I would try to
>> avoid
>>     > reinventing the wheel.
>>     >
>>     > I see it as a a2enmod | 2dismod analog of Apache2.
>>     >
>>     > We build and store Apache Ignite and its modules as separate
>> binaries
>>     > (binary per module) then use custom script that will know where to
>> download
>>     > necessary module. Or possibly use modified ignite.sh to specify
>> required
>>     > optional libs in run command while ignite.sh will download
>> everything
>>     > missing from known storage.
>>     >
>>     > The whole idea is in storing everything remotely and download on
>> demand,
>>     > not have all libs locally from the start.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > >
>>     > > -Val
>>     > >
>>     > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:25 PM Petr Ivanov <[hidden email]
>>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     > > Hi, Val!
>>     > > Thanks for your efforts on this endeavour!
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > I would like to suggest deliveries changes in Apache Ignite 3.0:
>>     > >  — modularised  binary delivery — single minimal binary for
>> starting
>>     > Ignite and all other modules and parts of the project (benchmarks,
>>     > examples, etc.) packed in their own binary which can be added via
>> custom
>>     > dependency management tool (i.e. modules.sh)
>>     > >  — same distribution for RPM and DEB packages but with modules
>> packed as
>>     > separate ones (PHP for example)
>>     > >  — separate thin client release cycle with custom versioning
>>     > > Possibly, we can we add additional section to the document you
>>     > introduced for this part.
>>     > >
>>     > > Also, it seems that full JDK11 support (including building) would
>> be a
>>     > huge milestone and a sign of healthy modern project that tends to
>> be on the
>>     > verge of mainstream technologies and not the stockpile of legacy
>> leftovers
>>     > (fully support Iliya in removing all that was deprecated and/or
>> marked as
>>     > unused anymore).
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     > > > On 8 Aug 2020, at 02:00, Valentin Kulichenko <
>>     > [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]
>> >>
>>     > wrote:
>>     > > >
>>     > > > Igniters,
>>     > > >
>>     > > > I've created the page:
>>     > > >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
>> <
>>     >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache*Ignite*3.0__;Kys!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpm9uWJo_$
>> >
>>     > > >
>>     > > > That's not everything I have in mind, but I believe there is
>> already a
>>     > lot
>>     > > > to talk about :)
>>     > > >
>>     > > > Please take a look let me know if you have any concerns,
>> objections, or
>>     > > > questions. Once we reach the consensus on the proposed changes,
>> I will
>>     > > > start creating tickets in Jira and a more detailed plan.
>>     > > >
>>     > > > -Val
>>     > > >
>>     > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 6:28 PM Saikat Maitra <
>> [hidden email]
>>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     > > > wrote:
>>     > > >
>>     > > >> Hi Denis, Val
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >> Thank you for your reply and really appreciate it. It will be
>> very
>>     > cool to
>>     > > >> be able to connect and plan release together and learn more
>> about
>>     > Ignite in
>>     > > >> the process :)
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >> Regards
>>     > > >> Saikat
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 7:12 PM Valentin Kulichenko <
>>     > > >> [hidden email] <mailto:
>> [hidden email]>>
>>     > wrote:
>>     > > >>
>>     > > >>> Hi Saikat,
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>> That surely is a great idea. We will work together with Denis
>> on
>>     > setting
>>     > > >>> this up in the nearest future.
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>> -Val
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:21 AM Denis Magda <
>> [hidden email]
>>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>>> Saikat,
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> Fully support your idea on a virtual meetup! Once Val
>> collects and
>>     > > >>> outlines
>>     > > >>>> the main changes with directions on wiki, we’ll go ahead and
>>     > schedule
>>     > > >> the
>>     > > >>>> meetup to talk things out in a bit more detail. We’ll use
>> our new
>>     > > >> Virtual
>>     > > >>>> Ignite Meetup group for that inviting both Ignite
>> contributors and
>>     > > >>>> application developers.
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> Denis
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> On Thursday, August 6, 2020, Saikat Maitra <
>> [hidden email]
>>     > <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     > > >>>> wrote:
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>>> Hi Valentin
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> Thank you for sharing and starting the thread. I am
>> thinking if it
>>     > > >> will
>>     > > >>>> be
>>     > > >>>>> a good idea to have a virtual meet setup to discuss on the
>> release
>>     > > >>>>> planning.
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> It will help to learn more individual features to be added
>> and also
>>     > > >> to
>>     > > >>>>> understand about features that have been deprecated and
>> scheduled
>>     > for
>>     > > >>>>> removal in Ignite 3.0 release. Also it will help community
>> member
>>     > to
>>     > > >>>>> connect in real time and ask questions and share feedback.
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> Regards,
>>     > > >>>>> Saikat
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:51 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
>>     > > >>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]
>> >>
>>     > > >>>>> wrote:
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> Hello!
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> I hope to see Apache Ignite release 3.0 as API trimming
>> release.
>>     > > >> Let
>>     > > >>> us
>>     > > >>>>>> correct external and internal APIs for which we have
>> better ideas
>>     > > >>> now,
>>     > > >>>> as
>>     > > >>>>>> well as remove old and deprecated code.
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> We may also introduce new configuration mechanisms and
>> user-facing
>>     > > >>> API
>>     > > >>>>>> (such as cache-less native SQL queries), but this we could
>>     > > >> prototype
>>     > > >>>>> before
>>     > > >>>>>> starting the 3.0 task.
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> I will advise against targeting large new features at 3.0.
>> They
>>     > can
>>     > > >>> be
>>     > > >>>>>> added in subsequent point releases, whereas we can't
>> really remove
>>     > > >> or
>>     > > >>>>>> remodel stuff in point releases.
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> Regards,
>>     > > >>>>>> --
>>     > > >>>>>> Ilya Kasnacheev
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>> чт, 6 авг. 2020 г. в 03:54, Valentin Kulichenko <
>>     > > >>>>>> [hidden email] <mailto:
>>     > [hidden email]>>:
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> Igniters,
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> I would like to kick off a discussion regarding Ignite
>> 3.0.
>>     > > >> Ignite
>>     > > >>>> 2.0
>>     > > >>>>>>> exists for more than 3 years now and we've already
>> collected a
>>     > > >>>>>> significant
>>     > > >>>>>>> list [1] of changes that we would like to have, but cannot
>>     > > >>> implement
>>     > > >>>>>>> without breaking compatibility.
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> I think it's time to start planning for the next major
>> release
>>     > > >> and
>>     > > >>>>>>> discussing what should be included. I've already gathered
>> some
>>     > > >>>>>> information
>>     > > >>>>>>> and feedback, and have some thoughts on how to approach
>> this. In
>>     > > >>> the
>>     > > >>>>> next
>>     > > >>>>>>> few days, I will put everything into a Wiki page and will
>> share
>>     > > >> it
>>     > > >>>> once
>>     > > >>>>>>> this is done. Stay tuned!
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> I'm willing to drive the 3.0 activities going forward as
>> well.
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> In the meantime, if there are any immediate thoughts or
>> ideas,
>>     > > >>> please
>>     > > >>>>>> feel
>>     > > >>>>>>> free to join the thread and share them.
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> [1]
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
>> <
>>     >
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/__;!!O3mv9RujDHg!2GlQzPzSAyxjW5tzyIzjaVVuR5_U_s65MCFLww8yIHRMzDqSrm5C2nkXYQErpp6mV7IJ$
>> >
>>     > > >>>>> Apache+Ignite+3.0+Wishlist
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>> Regards,
>>     > > >>>>>>> Val
>>     > > >>>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>>
>>     > > >>>>>
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>> --
>>     > > >>>> -
>>     > > >>>> Denis
>>     > > >>>>
>>     > > >>>
>>     > > >>
>>     > >
>>     >
>>     >
>>
>>
>>
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